In this episode of Conversations4Citizenship, Dr. Arzhia Habibi discusses her research on global citizenship education (GCE) in Chinese higher education. Dr. Habibi's work, conducted remotely during the COVID-19 pandemic, explores how GCE is expressed through classroom practices and philosophical underpinnings in China. She emphasizes the importance of culturally rooted approaches and the nuanced, sophisticated practices that challenge Western narratives. Dr. Habibi also highlights the use of arts-based research methods, including watercolour paintings, to enrich her remote ethnographic study and provide deeper insights into the educational practices observed.
In this episode of Conversations4Citizenship, Dr. Arzhia Habibi, a Junior Research Fellow at Somerville College, University of Oxford, delves into her research on global citizenship education (GCE) within Chinese higher education. She conducted during the COVID-19 pandemic, employed remote ethnography to investigate the classroom practices and understandings of GCE among teachers and students in China. Dr. Habibi's work challenges dominant Western narratives by uncovering the sophisticated and culturally rooted expressions of GCE in China, influenced by Confucian philosophies and local discourses.
Dr. Habibi's methodological approach is particularly noteworthy. Due to pandemic restrictions, she conducted her ethnographic research remotely, participating in online classes and engaging with teachers and students via digital platforms like WeChat. This remote participant observation required careful navigation of ethical considerations, including issues of censorship and surveillance. Dr. Habibi also employed arts-based research methods, using watercolour paintings and sketches to document and analyze her findings. These creative approaches allowed her to capture the implicit and explicit expressions of GCE, providing a more holistic understanding of the educational practices in China.
Throughout the episode, Dr. Habibi emphasizes the importance of culturally sensitive and contextually relevant approaches to GCE. She advocates for recognizing the diverse perspectives within Chinese education and the potential for GCE to foster critical consciousness and global belonging. Her work highlights the transformative possibilities of higher education and the value of integrating arts into educational research to enrich and deepen the analysis.
This episode is hosted by Dr. Adam Peter Lang. Please subscribe to the podcast through Apple, Google, Spotify, or Amazon Music. You may also follow @c4c_ed on Twitter. We look forward to hearing your feedback. If you would like to explore participating in our podcast and submit your blog post to the C4C, do not hesitate to reach out through the online participation form or email us at conversations4citizenship@gmail.com
2. Further Reading List (Methodology papers)
Stella Micheong Cheong00:03
Hello, listeners! and welcome to the Conversations4Citizenship podcast. I am your host, Stella Mi-cheong Cheong. Today we are delighted to welcome Dr. Arzhia Habibi, a Junior Research Fellow and Chapel Director at Somerville College, University of Oxford, explores the nuanced expressions of global citizenship through the lens of Chinese cultural and educational practices. Through an immersive remote ethnographic study at a Chinese university, Dr. Habibi delved into how teachers and students understand and practice GCE in citizenship and moral education courses. Her work, deeply influenced by upbringing in China, uncovers the cultural roots, philosophical underpinnings, and innovative classroom approaches that shape GCE's expression in China, challenging dominant Western narratives and adding vital cross-cultural depth to the field. Hi, Arzhia. How are you doing?
Arzhia Habibi 01:24
Hi, Stella, Adam and Kamille, thank you so much for having me today on your podcasts. I'm so excited to be here with you all.
Stella Micheong Cheong01:33
Yeah, we are looking forward to talking to you. So without further ado, I'm going to hand over my colleague Dr. Adam Peter Lang, Adam?
Adam Peter Lang 01:43
Hello, listeners. And hello, everybody. Welcome to Conversations4citizenship. And a real welcome to our guest Arzhia today, who I'm delighted to be asking some initial questions to base a conversation. So we that's the aim that we have here. And my other colleagues, Kamille, and Stella will come in with some other questions at the end. So Arzhia, just to start with, I wonder if you could just tell us a little bit about yourself, actually, and your sort of research journey?
Arzhia Habibi 02:15
Yeah, of course. So, yeah, I've recently completed my PhD at Oxford University, and I not for a million years, did I ever expect to say something like that? (Congratulations!) Thank you very much. And I suppose I've been baffled and enamored and hopeful and heartbroken by this beautiful and complex field of education, which I think many of us are probably, yeah, kind of grappling with at the moment as well. But I wasn't always involved in educational work, and particularly with global citizenship education, I initially actually started out wanting to be an actor. So when I was 18, I got placed at Essex University to do drama and literature. But Stella mentioned earlier on, I was actually brought up in China. So I lived in the southeast of China for about five years in a place called Fuzhou and went to Chinese kindergarten, so my earliest memories are of being in Chinese education. So when I was 18 years old and finished high school, I thought I'd like to go back to China and kind of try and reclaim some of that language and to reconnect also with those kind of early childhood experiences. So I took a gap year Xiamen and started really learning the language and just spending time with communities there, and building friendships as well. And learning about the different cultures and philosophies. And that kind of shifted everything for me and I realised I had a bit of aptitude for studying Mandarin and also really interested in in the, in the cultures there. So I decided, what courses are there in the UK that I could study Mandarin and also learn a bit more about Chinese society and history. And so Nottingham University came up. But I didn't have the grades to get in. So I wrote them a letter and was said, sort of are really interested in studying about China. And I think I'm doing quite well in my courses I'm doing I've got some good grades here with language. And they wrote back the Head of the School of Chinese studies, which they had at the time wrote back and said, Okay, you sound like the kind of person that we want on this course. So let's skip the UCAS system. So I managed to get into Nottingham University without the grades and whatsoever As in I had incredible mentorship and support. And started to engage with kind of questions around multicultural education integration, and ended up writing my undergraduate thesis on issues of integration between mainland Chinese students and local British students. And that kind of started me off on this trajectory in education and educational research. And I ended up doing my masters in Taiwan. And then in Taiwan, I applied for this this PhD in Oxford and ended up coming here.
Adam Peter Lang 05:37
Well, that's fantastically interesting. The stages loss is education and research are gained by the sound of it. But what coughs that's a very interesting journey into study fascinating and reflects, I think some of the issues we're trying to come to grips with in conversations for citizenship or that later. I mean, my second question, really, you've kind of answered it, but it's about let's go to your research, particularly, can you tell us a little bit about your PhD research and why you chose to do that in China? Obviously, you've got your links there, and why particularly on Chinese higher education? Can you elaborate a little bit more on that, please?
Arzhia Habibi 06:23
Yeah, of course. So my research is on the expressions of global citizenship education in Chinese higher education. In Mandarin, for if there's any Chinese speakers out there. 中国高等教育中的世界公民教育的表现方式 (zhongguo gaodeng jiaoyu zhong de shijie gongmin jiaoyu de biaoxian fangshi). And I was looking at particularly the classroom practices of global citizenship education in these two courses that I was enrolled on as a participant observer, moral and citizenship education. And I was also looking at how teachers and students that were engaged in those spaces how they understood global citizenship education. And in terms of what took me to China to explore this question of global citizenship education. So yes, my earliest memories are of being in China and of using Mandarin to also try and build connections across different divides, I suppose. And so I came at this project kind of philosophically preoccupied with this desire to culturally bridge and relational conversations, and thinking about belonging in home across multiple borders as well. So that was kind of where I was personally coming at it from and then also, philosophically speaking, in China, there are these very rich discourses, Confucian and otherwise, that speak of this notion of like, 天下大同tianxia datong, which means like below Heaven or below the skies, all are essentially interdependent are one family and others like 和而不同he er bu tong unity in diversity, which is also you know, these are these are also discourses that have been co-opted, as well by political forces. So that was also something to grapple with in the research itself, but perhaps more on that later. But you could see that in these philosophies, there was a kind of, there was an A tilt towards thinking about global belonging, and more recently, contemporary scholars in mainland China, and also more broadly in the region, have been thinking about how to reinterpret these philosophies in a culturally rooted global citizenship education so that it's accessible familiar for folks, kind of on the ground, in schools and in universities in China. In terms of why particularly higher education, I was focused on for university. So I was always very interested in in university as a site of change and transformation, whether it be here in UK, whether it be in Taiwan, or whether in China. And I was interested in how of the kind of radical possibilities that can take place in the classroom and also in informal learning environments amidst kind of complex socio-political forces or different coercive regimes. I was interested in in how people can engage in very kind of generative citizenship acts. So that was kind of what drew me I think, to the Higher Education space as such.
Adam Peter Lang 10:04
Okay, thank you. Um, we'll come back to touch on some of those issues in a minute that access to researching there. And so just when were you doing your sort of research and field work? Can you give us sort of timeframe of that? Was that? What years was that? Before the pandemic?
Arzhia Habibi 10:19
No, it was right through the pandemic. Really? Yeah. So I was supposed to actually be in China to do the field work. Yes. But then I had to do it. It changed everything remotely. Yes, of course, adapted. So yeah, it was 2020-2021.
Adam Peter Lang 10:37
Okay, interesting. Right, we'll come back to that limited. Now, in your word, sentence. Thank you very much for that you said something that like this, you wanted to push against mainstream conceptualization of Chinese education. And you kind of touched on that. But given our podcast, we very much like to look at the debates that are going on between the North and South and, and global dynamics. Could you just expand a little bit more on that? What is your passion? What is your drive there?
Arzhia Habibi 11:08
Yeah, of course. So I think often in these kind of Global North discourses, and also in in Western mainstream media, there's often quite a strong portrayal of Chinese education as being indoctrination, and just memorization and rote learning. And at least what I wanted to try and convey to people in through this research was that there's something actually far more complex and nuanced and rich that's happening in in the particular learning community that I was engaged in. And this global citizenship education, which was implicit, there's not a named global citizenship education course, in the Chinese higher education system. It's much more the teacher’s kind of implicitly acting in the classroom and having their own kind of rationale around why they do certain things. But there are there's a kind of a really sophisticated and refined set of practices and understandings that are taking place in that space. And I wanted to be able to sort of, say, to Anglophone discourses, and the kind of public I guess, that these things are they can be witnessed. They're not part of perhaps the Yeah, these kinds of mainstream narratives, but they're present. And they're very much a kind of quite an empowered vision of what global citizenship education can look like in in a socio politically complex environment.
Adam Peter Lang 12:56
No, that's very interesting. And later on, so we're telling you that you've got a chance to sort of post some recommended reading apart for your thesis, of course, but other people that might be writing on this, that might be interesting for our listeners to reference. So that'd be really good. Now, maybe slightly moving on for that. And again, your kind of slightly answered this. But I was curious, because you are you undertook your research in Mandarin? (Yeah). Then you translated it into English, which is no mean feat? Of course. I mean, first of all, was anything do you think lost in translation? That's the first thing and then what do you have advice for some of the scholars that we work with who do go to all different parts of the world, and sometimes they research in English or in their own mother tongue? Or other times they do it in language of the community? And then they translate it across? If you've got any sort of thoughts on that? Are there any sort of ethical issues or practical issues related to that?
Arzhia Habibi 13:53
Yeah, that's such a thoughtful question. Thank you. Yeah, it was definitely 100% a challenge. And it was, I do believe that there were things that were lost in translation, not least, because it's not my mother tongue, but also because I was conducting this all online. So, I would my vision also was partial in that sense. But I did feel a kind of ethical imperative to use Mandarin. And I've always loved kind of clumsily trying my best with the language. And I think actually, in a way, it shifted certain power dynamics within our conversations with the teachers and with the students because I was coming at it, not just as a researcher as trying like from this like Oxford University space, but I was coming at it as someone that was like, really trying to learn and understand from their perspective, and also use the kind of linguistic tools and the cultural frames that were familiar to them. I'm, and which I needed time to sort of sensitise myself too. Also because the nature of citizenship education, global citizenship education in China is, is very layered. There is sort of so many different meanings at different levels, depending on the particular teacher that's teaching and their own background and understanding engagement with different discourses around human rights and what not. So there was a lot of implicit messaging, reading between the lines at times in the classroom that I needed to kind of be sense checking on with, with other Chinese colleagues and collaborators, not just in the university there, but also in the UK here. So I was very fortunate to have some close friends that are native Mandarin speakers, and also working in the education space or in the kind of international human rights space. And they kind of advised me on certain terminologies that were used, the kind of potential other messaging that was going on in certain artefacts or materials that were used in the class. And that these were kind of quite extensive conversations that happened around the material, the data in Mandarin. And it was kind of quite a real anxiety for me, it was like, Am I understanding this? Or have I just got this completely wrong. But fortunately, I think I had incredible support from these from the teachers themselves, actually in China who are quite committed in making sure that I had an accurate understanding of what they were saying, but also of colleagues here in the UK, that kind of shepherded my thinking as well.
Adam Peter Lang 17:02
I feel you've touched on a whole range of things there. But I mean, that you've just said about the hierarchy of higher education, and also about the power dynamic, I think it's really important that you chose to do it in that way to not to differentiate yourself in that way from the people that you were researching with. That's very important. I think a lot of other academics should learn from that. I think that's very interesting what you said. Now, you've again touched on this, and I'm going to be pretty bold and ask you this question. In the West, and I'm sitting here in London, that there is there's been quite a bit of pushback politically against China, just recently, actually, not just to deal with the pandemic, but since about the role of the Chinese Communist Party and students coming to this country. And I fear and the geopolitical dynamics that are taking place at the moment. That is a worry, actually, it's a worry, and it's not built on all evidence. So though, you know, there is concern about human rights issues in Hong Kong, with the Uyghurs and we've got a lot worse in just recent times. So, what do you say to that? I mean, how do you, you know, haven't been in the forefront of research? You know, how do you respond to that sort of criticism or that pushback?
Arzhia Habibi 18:26
Yeah. So I think my first thought is that I would be, I would question any narrative that seeks to kind of homogenise the perspectives and biographies and experiences within the Chinese international student community. At the same time, I also think we do need to be able to name coercive mechanisms for control regimes. We need to be able to use like a critical discernment to be able to say, what is happening in that geopolitical space and how it's informing different shaping, informing that kind of educational space as well. But I would just be cautious on how the digesting of those kinds of narratives or rhetoric around international Chinese students, and who they are, how that can be potentially harmful and actually reduce our understanding of the very diverse opinions and understandings and biographies within that community because they are vast and different from one another as well. I think if we take the time to listen and ask
Adam Peter Lang 19:48
Well, thank you for that very sensitive answer. Now your research fascinating they actually are multimedia methods, including watercolour paintings and sketches. I only visited China briefly once. And obviously, art is very important part of the culture. But can you tell us more about this? Your the sketches and watercolours and how and why you did this? And what are your reflection on using kind of different mediums, both for your research and you feel results, but also for one of the things we're quite interested here is looking at different methodologies, different ways of researching. So have you got any sort of thoughts on that, or tips or ideas for our listeners?
Arzhia Habibi 20:30
Yeah, of course, you know, I'm always really keen to think about how we can bring in the arts, or take an arts based approach in educational research, and to kind of bring a bit more colour to these kinds of black and white papers that we're constantly downloading. So I'm kind of Yeah, keen to sort of be talking about this as well. But in terms of how I ended up using, like watercolour in these kinds of creative mediums, to represent different parts of the data, and to conceptualise as well in the research. It sorts of began in during the fieldwork process. So the teachers that I was working with online, in this citizenship and moral education class, they, they use a lot of visual artefacts to be able to convey meaning around cultural pasts. And then also the undergraduate teacher that I was working with, she encouraged students to draw and to use kind of their own artistic sensibilities to sort of make meaning around moral education and to help them kind of process different discourses. And, and so as a kind of collaborative learners, someone that was engaged in that space as an observer, but also as someone that was learning, I started to, to kind of record my field work, work notes creatively, in that sense, too. So I started drawing, just because she was encouraging us to do that as well. And they became part of kind of my pre- analytical insights basically, around what was happening in the classroom, and also the kind of implicit nature of global citizenship education in this particular context, that there was something that required you to independently interpret beyond what was explicitly being said. And I found that the arts, the use of watercolour painting as well, was a way in which you that meaning around interpretation and subjective meaning making could be also conveyed to the reader. So at the start of each of my chapters, I have a particular painting that's kind of highlights an area of the research or the findings. And, and that's framed as part of these expressions of global citizenship education in China. So it was it came through fieldwork, and my supervisors also kind of encouraged that sensibility within me, and I was not trained as as doing this as well. I just sort of found that it was a way I could also process and analyse and I, I used it within my analytical approach, which was reflexive thematic analysis. So that's Braun and Clarke for those that are interested in sort of thinking a little bit more about a creative approach to developing codes or generating themes within your research. So I used their kind of their principle of engaging with reflexive thematic analysis, that analysis should be playful and creative and imaginative as well. And so within that process of analysing, painting, and drawing became part of, of the generation of codes and of meaning making. And so I suppose, for other folks, other researchers, that want to think about how they can bring in these different mediums into their own projects, I would recommend looking at Braun and Clark's work to sort of see how kind of reflexive approaches can create space for the use of these kinds of artistic skills. And it doesn't have to be watercolour, it might be, like collaging it might be like in a zine (an image based pamphlet) making or it could be poetry, whatever kind of artistic sensibility that is, in the research of themselves, I think If they're able to articulate how that skill can also substantiate meaning around the data that they're describing, it can offer a richer account of what they're saying about the social phenomena that's under study. That it can actually create a kind of, yeah, a fuller picture of their research, you know, if they kind of also are transparent about that in their in their procedures, if that makes sense at all?
Adam Peter Lang 25:36
No, it does. It's, that's very well explained. And that's art space, sort of thematic approach. It's becoming a bit of a theme, actually, for our season three of conversations4citizenship. But I think it's very interesting how you explain why you did that, and your passion to do it. But also, I was interested when you mentioned that your supervisors were in a chord with you in that regard. And so what you're basically saying is, you're encouraging other scholars earlier stages, perhaps, to think seriously about using some of these very creative but insightful approaches. So thank you very much for that answer. Now, I'm gonna move on fairly swiftly. I'm gonna pass on to my colleagues in a minute. But you talk a lot about global citizenship education. And that's, in essence, what we talk about here. But there are some people that are sort of some scholars that are arguing that in today's geopolitical world, there's a bit of a pushback against that term. You know, we live in nationalist structures now much more than global, I heard you respond to that? And what are your thoughts on that?
Arzhia Habibi 26:44
Yes, I can see I can read that kind of narrative around that kind of pushback of global citizenship education, and the kind of grand narrative of what it is. And the hesitancy around embracing it also, in this kind of fractured world that we live in right now. But I think what's given me hope, actually, is through looking at this global citizenship education in China, because what I learnt from the teachers and the students was that there was a real critical consciousness of the kind of socio-political forces that were at play at their lives. And they were able to use this critical consciousness to also question the agendas behind global citizenship education. So I think when it's done effectively and sensitively, actually we can turn it on its head and say, you know, this is these are the problematic things about global citizenship education, this is potentially what could be harmful. I remember one student saying to me, you know, how am I supposed to believe I'm a global citizen? How am I supposed to identify as a global citizen? If every day the news I'm reading about the world is inaccurate? How can I trust what I'm reading? What? And so you know, there was a real sensitivity to the forces at play in their lives. And I think that's something I learned from, and I think that's something that the discourses of global citizenship education can learn from and, and folks like, VanessaAndreotti who is engaged in sort of, she has work around defining a critical global citizenship education and a soft global citizenship education. But I noticed that there was a quite a strong sense of criticality in the communities that I was engaged in. And so I'd say that it actually can be healthy in terms of addressing these geopolitical issues. And to responding to that, to that question around what it is actually useful, because it helps us to become, I think, when done effectively, and well, it helps us become critically discerning and caring as well.
Adam Peter Lang 29:11
Thank you. Now you write and speak, and you've been doing it today. But I just want to pick out a couple of particular phrases you use. First of all, ‘remote participant observer,’ you talked about that. And you talk about then working in a collaborative team. And then you sort of come to conclusion, I think you talk about aiming to really like this ‘encounter, embody, empower, and enact.’ So are you able to just sort of reflect and write little bit more on those phrases?
Arzhia Habibi 29:42
Yeah, of course. Well, I guess the first set of phrases around being like a remote participant observer, working in a collaborative team that relates to methodologic methodologically what I had to do in the research so because of the pandemic I couldn't, of course, be there in-person And so I wanted to try and get as closer reading of what was happening on the ground in the classrooms and people's understandings as possible. And so initially, I was going to be there for ethnographic work over an extended period of time. But I couldn't do that. So I woke up and took classes around 5am In the morning, and I was observing then and I was chatting with people on WeChat 微信was like the Chinese social media platform. And that was how I worked as a remote participant observer and sort of doing check ins with teachers and students, kind of week by week as well. And as a collaborative team, so there are a couple of students. They were teacher's assistants for the classroom that I was kind of more in regular touch with. And they sort of helped me also work in the classroom on occasion I prepared some materials, and we did a kind of hybrid teaching sessions. And that was clumsy, and it worked as well. But yeah, this that was sort of speaks to the kind of methodology that I used. And then in terms of these four E's, call them encounter in body, empower and enact. So these were descriptors, basically, of how I conceptualised expressions of global citizenship education in China. Yes, so they thought these four E's were basically descriptors of how we could understand a kind of embodied citizenship learning trajectory in this community that I was engaged in. And I really wanted to use these particular words, because I wanted to foreground the sense of an empowered global citizenship education and count, which was not co-opted by the kind of political institutions or narratives of nationalism or patriotism, which are certainly real as well in the Chinese context. But these words helped describe the particular learning trajectory of the students and teachers that I worked with.
Adam Peter Lang 32:31
Okay, thank you. Arzhia, that's fascinating. Is there anything before I pass over to stone communities or anything so far, that you wanted to say that you haven't had a chance to say, I'm sure, we'll give you a chance to do that again at the end, but I'm going to pass over if that's if you haven't got anything at the moment. I'm going to pass over to stellar. Thank you so much, indeed.
Arzhia Habibi 32:54
Thank you, Adam.
Stella Micheong Cheong32:55
Oh, that's good. Thank you, Arzhia, it’s really insightful discussions in terms of a methodology and also the concept of global citizenship education. And I'm really wondering the implementation of global citizenship education designed and developed by Western democratic society. So you know, my doctoral research focus on North Korean refugees, transformation of their civic identities from North Korea to South Korea, or to the UK. So I've heard the my participant North Korean migrant struggle to adapt to South Korean democratic system after such a strong ideological education that they've already experienced in authoritarian regime in North. So it made me wonder about China, another communist country. Actually, North Korea is not communist country. But anyway. Do you think the current global citizenship education translates well into China's unique social and political context? If not, one adjustment might be needed to make global citizenship education more effective in Chinese society?
Arzhia Habibi 34:35
Yeah, that's a really great question Stella, I think. So what I witnessed in the research and what in the teachers with the teachers that I was working with was that they would take on elements of a kind of the Western democratic vision of global citizenship education in the class. From so that you would see kind of particular figures, philosophers like John Dewey, Immanuel Kant, Mills, all of these kinds of philosophical, big philosophy figures, and they were used in the classroom. And they were also given a kind of culturally rooted framing as well, in terms of this was how they were introduced into the Chinese system, this was how they were historically situated, these were the kinds of social dynamics that surrounded how people engaged with these discourses. So it was never just like, taking it on blindly, necessarily, but it was, they were situating these individuals and discourses, and then there was also a kind of synthesis that was happening with local discourses, from public intellectuals in, for example, 19th century China. So they would kind of try the teachers would match certain discourses with local discourses. And, and certainly, in the Master's class, the citizenship education class, there was quite a strong focus on human rights and human rights education, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and China's involvement in that. And that was, again, a way in which this particular teacher had engaged with citizenship and global citizenship education discourses in their own time. And they felt that it was imperative that they be able to speak about human rights in the trainees’ contexts, that their students needed to be able to sensitise themselves to talking about it to understanding the different dynamics at play, in terms of why there is why, why it can become quite a violent tool between different systems. And so, he was very much influenced by his own trajectory, in that he'd encountered certain work. He'd gone to other international institutions and done research there. So that was part of why he framed things in a certain way or introduced certain materials. So it was very much the teachers sort of trying to shape it in accordance to the students, their own sort of aptitude or learning where they were on their own kind of citizenship education learning trajectory. And then also, more, more broadly speaking, what was socio politically and culturally at play? So I think it comes down to the teachers sensitivity as well, in terms of how they might go about engaging with those Western democratic discourses of global citizenship education. And there's a lot of possibility there, I think that for teachers to be quite creative, in terms of what they choose to bring into the classroom, and how they frame it. And then, of course, how students respond to that is another question.
Stella Micheong Cheong38:35
Okay, thank you, Arzhia, it is really helpful to understand implementation. Yeah.
Arzhia Habibi 38:43
I mean, I think it's really important to, to, with with your research as well, what you said about the kind of
Stella Micheong Cheong38:50
Yeah. And then when it comes to methodology, ah, as you mentioned, ethnographic research, during pandemic sounds crazy, tough, (even real) Oh, yeah, I can only imagine the order a series of others you face, collecting data, recruiting participants and so on. So I see, I'd love to hear more about the difficulties you face during conducting your field work, and how you manage to overcome them. Can you share?
Arzhia Habibi 39:33
Yeah, of course. So because everything was done online and digitally, there are of course, other ethical issues that came about through, you know, being aware that there were mechanisms for censorship and surveillance in these digital spaces as well. And If I had to learn how to just respond to the participants, what they were saying, in terms of, they kind of took the lead on what they shared. And if I notice that they didn't kind of go further down a particular way, then I wouldn't go down that way in conversation. And also, there are it kind of sensitised me to sort of certain ways, certain expressions that we used in Mandarin that, I think indicated, like, Oh, we've reached kind of quite a tender area in our conversation, it's quite sensitive. And, and sometimes that was through laughter, sometimes that was through just saying something in particular, or just kind of diverting the conversation. So I think I had to learn how to be quite careful in terms of how I responded to them. And but by and large, the students and teachers were incredibly open and generous with sharing their views and their materials. And I was able to gather a kind of vast amount of different visual materials as well as kind of written texts. And there were challenges also, in terms of online, you know, there were, as a participant observer, I sometimes technology dropped out, and we couldn't hear one another, I had to really push my headphones in the morning to kind of, it wasn't just being, you know, like listening to this in another language, but it was also the kind of distortion of sound or things. So that was also hard, and, you know, had to find a follow up and take photos of what was written on the blackboard and say, or, what was that? What were those characters there? I couldn't quite see. Because it's so blurred. So yeah, it was quite a kind of clumsy process of constantly member checking and seeing if, if I understood correctly, because of the kind of digital restrictions of it all. And of course, because it was, I'll just mention the ethnographic work. It was remote ethnographic work, you know, I so wish to have been able to just be in physical co-presence with people there, I know that there would be things that I, I ended, I would, I would understand differently, or they would be able to share with me, because I was I wouldn't be there in person and the spontaneity of ethnographic work could kind of flow a little more easily. But we did what we could, and I was still able to write a thesis. So that's okay, I guess.
Stella Micheong Cheong43:01
Wow. Thank you so much, Arzhia, for sharing rich details, your personal stories and struggles, it would be a great help for our listeners. And now I pass over my colleague, Kamille,
Kamille Beye 43:17
Thank you so much. I really liked your presentation, I was just thinking about all the different connections to Africa. So I'm going to do a couple questions here. So earlier, you talked about this line that is in Chinese culture below the heavens all I want family. And it reminds me so much Ubuntu an African context that talks about this idea of connecting to people in the surrounding world. And so I was just thinking, how do you look at some of these global south lessons that can be learned across these different cultures? Were some of the ideas that statement just not expressed?
Arzhia Habibi 43:56
Yeah, yeah. I, I find engaging with these kinds of concepts or these dreams, these aspirations from the global south from these different cultural contexts, incredibly hopeful. And I think there's a lot of ways in which kind of solidarity between these different viewpoints can be built as well. So I'm always keen to sort of try and kind of immerse myself I suppose a bit more in what's being said, from these different areas of different contexts. And I'm also reminded of something else from the I think the Latin American context, buen vivir was like to live well, and I think that's also been used in relation to global citizenship education discourses as well. So I take a lot of hope in terms of seeing how the these communities and also indigenous communities, how they're bringing these, which have always been there. But I think we're just learning a little bit now how to listen to what's been there, always. So, I suppose I would say it's kind of our responsibility now to really try and read and understand and listen to what's being said, because there's so much, I think potential in terms of thinking about interdependency or sustainability, but in ways that are far more, I think, perhaps caring and kind. And that's my sense of it so far. Anyway.
Kamille Beye 45:44
Thank you. It's Pura Vidain Costa Rica. Yeah. Okay. But I wouldn't ask you that was just curious that in the end of the lectures that you work with wood, they were they educated in the West? And I was thinking about that, okay, because that was the idea to be able to engage with some of these Western philosophers in such a way they can understand in that sense, and then put it in the context. That's local. I was just curious if there were some Western influence there.
Arzhia Habibi 46:09
Yeah, definitely. So what the young, yeah, they're one of the teachers was, did her PhD in the UK. And then the other teachers had done their PhDs in China, but had study abroad periods or research abroad periods in the UK, in Japan, in North America, and had travelled sort of as part of their, their work as well. So there was exposure to these discourses and also because they had relationships with other international collaborators, and the relationships that they spoke about, in terms of, you know, these kinds of rich intellectual conversations, which formed part of their thinking, seem to be really important in terms of how they would then go on to frame their own practices, and the kind of rationale they took in the classroom. So yes, there was kind of this international exposure, those this kind of through living or studying abroad, researching abroad. But then there was also this other element, which was the relationships and the intellectual conversations that also informed their thinking.
Kamille Beye 47:29
Thank you. And then I want to ask one question more before we wrap it up. So you talked a lot about reflexive thematic analysis. And I'm also using reflexive analysis in my own thesis. So I loved you talking about using the arts. And I was just curious, how can one use the art without being exploitative of the culture where you know, they're taking the art from?
Arzhia Habibi 47:57
So you mean being exploitive exploitative in the particular art that you're using?
Kamille Beye 48:05
Yes, I think so. Because you were able to use watercolours. And so, you know, that means that well, in the Chinese culture, you know, like you said before, there's a great appreciation for the arts. And so, water colouring would come naturally to your participants, probably, and you probably learned that as part of the culture that you're coming into. But in some places where maybe that's not the culture where you're taking photographs, or you're taking some of their physical art work, I think about when you look at those types of expression or purely a photograph, you know, I feel like it could be exploitative, obviously, people signed they signed waivers, saying that, you know, they know you're going to use this thing, but I feel like with physical pictures of, of people and acts, I think that sometimes they can be misconstrued when they don't want persons who are looking at the picture don't have the wherewithal to read what's behind the photo itself.
Arzhia Habibi 49:01
Yeah. I think that's a really important question to ask. And there's so great that there's that kind of ethical sensitivity around that question of exploitation and visual use of our participants or communities that we're engaged in. And I suppose, you know, you said you sign this waiver at the beginning, I consent that it. But this is always kind of an ongoing conversation, I think with our participants like, how they're represented, whether that be through visual materials or through the text that we write. I think that conversation with them is always ongoing, at least in the context of my research. I felt like it really important to be kind of checking in with, you know, this is how I'm representing you. This is my portrayal of you. This is the image that I've painted at the start of the chapter, which is also you know, kind of frames a little bit. The findings here and that involves, like, I did like a summary document that I then send to the to that participant and say, you know, this is what I'm using this is how that's yeah, this is how it's being portrayed. And I think that's one of the ways in which you can kind of try and navigate that that question of exploitation is through a kind of ongoing conversation and, and that your, the voices of your participants are really kind of valued and heard in that sense. Yeah. Does that kind of make sense?
Kamille Beye 50:31
No, it makes sense. It makes perfect sense. Thank you so much. So we're coming to the end of our time together. So I wanted to ask you, if you'd like to share anything else with our audience, about your work that has not yet come up?
Arzhia Habibi 50:44
Anything else about the work that hasn't come up? And no, I think we've done a quite a full account of what the research has been about. So yeah, I'm just incredibly grateful to have the opportunity to speak about this story of global citizenship education in China. And I think it's important that we, that the public know that this is happening.
Kamille Beye 51:09
Thank you so much. I totally agree, we do need to talk more about how China is perceived by the West and understand that these are narratives for persuasion, and that there's a whole different side that we are not privy to, and I think it's important we, I'm happy that you were able to come. So Dr. Habibi, thanks for your time. It was such a pleasure hearing about your timely research. And I really liked the idea one about the idea of the heavens under the heavens, we're all family. I love the idea that you did something different with the online participatory research and I think that people should really think about incorporating the arts into their research. Arts is a beautiful way for people to get to know a culture and as the participants express themselves, we who are doing the research, have a whole another level of understanding. So I am happy that you are able to share that. Even if it's like in the watercolour. We will get to see your work at some point. I'm closing the episode. So I'm Kamille. Thanks for listening to #conversations4citizenship. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Be sure to subscribe the conversations for citizenship and look for us on Twitter at @c4c_ed. A transcript of today's conversation with Dr. Arzhia Habibi can be found at www.conversations4citizenship.com. This episode of conversations4citizenship was produced by me, Kamille Beye, Dr. Adam Lang and Dr. Stella Cheong, recorded and sound mixed by Stella Cheong. Thank you so much for listening.